“Bra Color Day” Sparks Discussion (Discipleship II)
“Bro Color Day” Sparks Invaluable Discussion
In what areas do men need help?
Lately, I have been doing a lot of thinking in this area. Everyone remembers the “bra color day” fiasco that took place on facebook last week. I suppose there were both pros and cons to the “awareness” factor. Yes, it got a lot of people talking, however, the talk was not all about breast cancer.
I had my own reaction to the “bra color day” when I first learned about what the colors women around the world were posting. I asked a friend of mine, a pastors wife, what the colors mean. She indicated that she could not tell, but only to say that it was a girl thing. I immediately thought this must have something to do with the color of underwear. I thought this for two reasons, 1. I had real doubt that the privacy had anything to do with their color shirt or ink pen, 2. I am a man.
Just yesterday a friend of mine who pastors a church in Alabama called me and asked me my opinion concerning the question mentioned above. He’s working on graduate studies project. My guess is that
it primarily deals with men as they interact with the ever-changing culture. I did not give much thought to the “bra color day” on facebook until I hung up the phone.
In what areas to men need help and/or accountability? There were several I spoke with in regards to “bra color day” who opposed it because they thought it was inappropriate and TMI (too much information) especially for their husbands to see. One friend mentioned that she simply told her husband not to go on facebook that day. She did not want for her husband to see what color bras his friends were wearing. That is certainly understandable.
My intent with this post is not to rehash the “bra color day” debate; we have already had that discussion. However the recent event best illustrates what I am after. Where do men need help? In what areas? One suggested that men need mentor. I agree, but in what areas? I am looking for more specific answers. I would like to hear from both men and women on this one. The benefits of this subject is invaluable. Won’t you help a brother out?
Thanks -
PastorPusch
January 15th, 2010 at 11:06 am
I think men need straight talk. I am tired of people beating around the bush about the topics of sex, porn, lust, masturbation, and all those other words that we are scared to talk about. One of the most helpful conversations that I have never had was when a group of youth pastors last year at the Youth Pastor Summit in Orlando, sat around the dinner table and talked openly about our struggles. I don’t know, maybe I’m odd, but I think this would help.
January 15th, 2010 at 11:23 am
Where DON’T men need help? Discipleship, sex (and all its related facets), self-discipline, parenting, leadership, servanthood, money management….the list goes on.
Transparency between men is a start. However, I think at least part of the answer lies in inter-generational fellowship. The natural tendency of every age group of men is to hang out only with their peers. This is disastrous for everyone concerned. God intends for men to help one another. Older men have a wealth of wisdom to share about everything from sex to money. Younger men have a wealth of energy and cutting-edge knowledge (like technology, for instance) to contribute. We need to make time to be together and learn to honestly ask questions and give answers without hiding who we really are.
January 15th, 2010 at 11:45 am
Men certainly need help in the area of thought. Men need to be accountable for what they allow themselves to see and think about. Men need to discipline themselves to look the other way; stop watching; etc.
January 15th, 2010 at 12:19 pm
I think anything that sparks a discussion on Breast Cancer is a positive thing. I think it’s sad that men can’t hear the color of a woman’s bra without instantly lacking self control and thinking dirty thoughts, and that this is what a man automatically thinks of in this scenerio rather than seeing if there is alternate explanation. Why would Christian women do this if there wasn’t a good reason or cause. To automatically say women shouldn’t post things like this because men are weak and prone to “bad” thoughts takes all responsibility off of men and lays the blame on women. Men need to have self-control and be able to handle things that Christianity deems undesireable. There are things all around us that men could argue a lack of self control over–so can a man blame a women everytime he passes a bra store? How about an attractive woman he passes by? Where does it end? This issue should be solely focused on Breast Cancer and not men’s lack of self control. Imagine if women started to use the weak excuse too?How much stronger of a reaction would the Christian community have? All this debate does is take away from a real problem (that is beyond someone’s weak mind), Breast Cancer, which kills people everyday. If a couple of fb posts about colors brings this must light to a dim and dark subject (there were even newscasts about it) then I can’t see how it does anything but promote awareness and promote progress on a killer, which is definately positive thing. Aren’t Christians supposed to help out their communities and promote help, health, and love/goodness to all. Something to think about, is taking the discussion away from Breast Cancer awareness and onto what are in the minds of those with no self control, taking away from the benefits to the greater community and not promoting help, health, and love/goodness to all.
January 15th, 2010 at 1:11 pm
Any man, no matter how strong or faithful or however you want to describe him can have a moment of weakness or falter and allow a thought to wander in his mind or his eye to stray.
In a world that puts such emphasis on sexuality, it becomes very difficult for a man not to notice the physical appeal of a woman. While the posting of a bra color may seem innocent enough and to support a good cause, but there was probably no thought put into what kind of reaction/result could come from such a posting. And to be totally honest, I hadn’t thought of the situations that could arise from the fiasco until this posting.
So where do I think men need help? Certainly in self-discipline and self-control, but is it really as easy as saying “Oh, men need to change their thoughts”? No, of course not, and an accusatory statement boldly saying this without any more thought or explanation behind the statement is no more useful than innocently posting bra colors.
I think every man could work to identify his own struggles and develop his defense against the thoughts or behaviors. While identifying his own weaknesses, finding a support network and discussing how other men deal with it could be a successful route.
January 15th, 2010 at 1:48 pm
Eric, I wanted to blog about this to, but since I don’t seem to make time for blogging anymore, here goes!
First of all, I am glad you posted this. I have 2 main concerns with what happened last week.
1). It’s a sign of how far we have drifted. Telling your bra color is not the end of the world. However, it is a sign of how boundaries have become so blurred that indecency and appropriateness are difficult to distinguish…assuming the person even cares at all! These very same women would never approach a man at church or in the mall or at a friends house and say “I am wearing a black bra.” There are many reasons for this, but the bottom line is that there are very few clear “cultural” boundaries anymore. Scripture does give us guidelines on using wisdom and discernment, it’s up to the individual to actually be “in the Word” and being tuned into what is a wise choice based on a biblical world view. (according to Barna, only between 5 – 9% of church-goers even have a biblical worldview anyway…is there any wonder things are messed up!).
2). The second thing that concerned me is that some people were upset that others got upset. Meaning: they didn’t want this to become deviceive or a point of argument. The problem I have with that is that confrontation is necessary in the Church in order to keep the church pure and healthy. If we can’t confront each other over our differences, dissagrements, sin, OR whatever, than we have no ability go allow iron to sharpen iron. We have no ability to actually fulfill scripture and “test ourselves” or keep each other accountable. In other words, if someone things I should just keep my mouth shut over the bra color thing because I wouldn’t want to cause arguements or dissagreements, than why shouldn’t I keep my mouth shut when a friend commits adultry, when a person at church dressed immodest, or when I see a friend using a serious lack of judgment in a particular area of their life? Make sense?
January 15th, 2010 at 1:50 pm
To put it in the most basic, and honest, terms, men are beasts and the first thing that pops into a man’s mind at the mention of bras is breasts. YES we need help, but the best help isn’t necessarily trying to live in a sterile world. We don’t and we can’t. We should avoid what we can, sure, but in reality men are faced with breasts (literally) everywhere, even in worship services (and let’s not admit that we all have had thoughts about some of the women we attend church with). All that to say, a man has to master himself, we can’t count on a revival of modesty to bail us out; but a revival isn’t a bad idea. We need some honest dialogue between brothers and sisters on how we are responsible for each other and how we can help and/or guard each other; too bad anything that reeks of sex is a taboo subject amongst Christians. I think we should do more Titus Training (Titus 2:2-8; also note I Timothy 5:1-2). Most Christian women will talk more openly with each other about sex than Christian men will; much could be said about the need for accountability partners and “fellow warriors” (Eldridge concept). All of the above must be utilized in our fight for holiness, and some of this is being done in limited circles. Some of this can and should be addressed from the pulpit. It can be done with truth and tact, but smaller groups are probably the best places to delve into this. Books, articles, blogs and other outlets are also invaluable. For those of us who are married, we face the most frightening part of this and that is honest dialogue with our own wives about our struggles. No one can protect me better than my own wife, but she doesn’t understand how much I need that unless I tell her. And if I tell her, will she think less of me (I’m supposed to be a man of God not a beast)? So, how do we talk to our wives about our needs and struggles? And again this is not a new issue, there are good resources available for help. The question is, do we take advantage of them? Maybe the pulpit could be used to raise awareness and point couples and singles to the appropriate resources? Well, there’s my rambling two cents worth.
January 15th, 2010 at 1:54 pm
Rebecca,
I completely understand what you are saying. Men should be “under the Spirit’s control” in regards to their minds. However, I have one question. Don’t you think, as a Christian woman, that if another method of bringing awareness to breast cancer is just as affective we should us that? You are doing what you just got onto men for doing. You are placing the blame 100% on men with no responsibility on women. I think both sides need to share the load.
January 15th, 2010 at 2:44 pm
I absolutely agree with your post. I didn’t post anything because I felt it inappropriate and private. Men have a different thought pattern than women do, just as God wired them to have. However, that thought pattern is to be controlled in a godly way (i.e. toward their wife only). I felt that women posting their colors only led men to think down a wrong path, and therefore, we are becoming a “stumbling block” to them. Yes, they are in control of their thoughts and where they allow them to go; however, we need not contribute to any struggles of any sort. Some people may find my view on it “overboard” and “ridiculous”, but I would rather “error on the side of caution”. There are other ways to draw awareness to breast cancer than that. Personally, it didn’t draw my attention to the cause, it simply gave me too much information about the ladies on my page. I didn’t say “because you told me that piece of information, I am now going to go walk the Susan G. Komen Walk For The Cure.” I simply thought “TMI”.
As far as men “needing help”, as you posted in your blog, I personally believe it is a subject matter that they need to bring before God, surrender their thoughts to His control, and find confidence in someone that they know will allow them to be open and honest, without fear of judgement or being looked down upon. Where there is honesty and openness, there is freedom and guidance to live a God-pleasing life.
January 15th, 2010 at 2:45 pm
I think it would have worked out better if one or more woman wouldn’t have shared what was in the email. It stated not to share with the opposite sex but to share with girlfriends to bring attention to breast cancer awareness. As I found out later, a woman had took and posted the email for all to see. I guess that woman didn’t cherish modesty or breat cancer awareness. I guess men do think differently that woman, I didn’t have a clue what the color ment til I recieved the email. My first thought was they were talking in code and I didn’t notice that it was just woman who were doing either. Maybe I just have better things to do than trying to figure out other’s status updates. If I don’t get and some I don’t . I just move on and and think, it must be for a certain group of friends.
January 15th, 2010 at 4:53 pm
I agree completely with your post, Eric! I don’t think many women have any idea the struggles that men face. Not that I really have a clue either, but I read a book that my aunt recommended to me that I would like to recommend to everyone else. There are two of them in the series by Shaunti Feldhan (I think that’s how her name is spelled). One is called For Women Only (the one I read) and the other is called For Men Only. They are Christian publications and they are excellent insights into what exactly is going on in the minds and hearts of the opposite sex. It’s not anything like “things you need to know about a man so that you can get him to like you” or anything–it’s very practical and real information.
Rebecca, I don’t know you, but maybe reading the above book would really help you see that it’s more than extremely difficult for men. Not that it gives them a pass, and yes they need to do their best to reign in their minds and thoughts, but it is not as simple as we sometimes think it should be.
Thanks, Eric!
January 16th, 2010 at 10:46 am
You might not can keep birds (thoughts) from flying over your head..but you can sure keep them from nesting there.
Many temptations out there..but satan cannot make you do anything. Following thru is a choice you make. Man or woman.
January 16th, 2010 at 11:12 am
I’ve thought about this for a couple days. I do see the point that bra colors could def lead certain men down paths of thought that they didn’t want to go down. I recognize that this is an area where men need some mentoring and I thought to myself what my own pastor would say if I asked him about this. So here goes, a suggestion from a totally unqualified person. I think that men, who are, according to these posts, particularly susceptible to the problem of sexual thoughts, should probably take more proactive steps to guard their minds. Someone once said that an idle mind is the devil’s playground. It’s probably hard to sit around fantasizing about sex when you’re busy pouring into your family, your kids, your church, your wife. That’s my suggestion for people who face temptations and struggle with controlling their thoughts. When you have idle moments and thoughts creep in, recognize it and then do something about it. When you find yourself thinking about someone’s bra, e-mail your wife and tell her how lovely she is. When you find yourself tempted in other ways, call a friend and ask him how he’s doing. In other words, when you have trouble with your mind, GET BUSY. Turn that idle time and those idle thoughts in a productive direction and I’ll bet it would pay off all the way around.
January 17th, 2010 at 8:19 pm
Well put, Matt. Those are my thoughts, exactly.
January 20th, 2010 at 3:17 pm
I haven’t read all of the previous posts, but since you asked, these are my initial thoughts:
Mentoring men is best defined, in my opinion, as discipling men. The word really is DISCIPLESHIP. After all, the best mentor is someone that’s being mentored by someone else…which is just great standard of accountability for men from the outset.
So I guess the first thing I think of that men need to be mentored on is OPPORTUNITIES. Opportunities to sin, opportunities to rise above, opportunities to minister and help and pour truth into a situation. OPPORTUNITIES. I know that sounds general, but it really does encompass everything.
For more reading, I’d check out this free newsletter I found called “A Look in the Mirror” and a book called “Pastoring Men.” Both of which are pretty good in respect to mentoring & how to lead men in thinking through situations like “Bra Color Day.” Hope this helps bro!